Can Virgil groove??

[matricks]

You all remember that he studied with Philly Joe when he was 19 and Philly recommended him for the Bill Evans gig. Signals got crossed and he never made it to the audition. That is a pretty good recommendation coming from Philly. That was at age 19 none the less. I would guess that he could swing his ass off if he was in the situation.

[beat Hit]

Dazz...

I stick to what I wrote: "I somehow sense that I may not be disappointed"

He may not choose to do it, but I feel he's got enough musicianship to pull it off. I am just an open-minded skeptic, that's all... [img]wink.gif[/img]

[img]tongue.gif[/img]

[McKenzie]

If you could hear him with Southern Sons(Journey type band) or Tina Arena(pop) it would shock you how "Not In Your Face" his playing was. There was VERY little I will show you what I can do mentality. You would never believe it was Virg at all, other than the very minimal double bass excursion here or there or playing with the time, from here and there. You can count his extended fills on one hand. And yeah Philly highly recommended him for the jazz gig at that age. But V is right it is not his desire for the most part anymore or nature just to sit back and do the "normal" thing. But like Peter say's he could do whatever he wanted to do, his mentality is nothing will stand in my way if I do not want it to.

And Palmerlouie I would go for the "Moon Is Falling" first but Undefined is Great also no doubt. Both are very balanced between just laying it down and times of tearing it up, if you know what I mean. [img]wink.gif[/img]

Dig

[Vdrummer]

I hadn't heard the Philly Joe story before. That's very interesting. I think Virgil is an awesome player and he could probably do anything he puts his talents and mind to. It's just hard to picture, if you know what I mean.

[Lucius74]

Virgil holds back a lot in that Tina Arena gig, he does what he should in that gig. I heard that Virgil used to have a lot more feel in his younger days, dont take that the wrong way, but over the years his headspace has changed, but as Peter stated, he could do what ever he puts his mind to, like most people could, but he has quite a dicipline for his art...!

[Vdrummer]

I just got my new issue of Drum! July/August 2004. It's an issue dedicated to Prog Rock.

I wrote a feature on Progressive Rock drumming with excerpts I transcribed from many different drummers. There are two excerpts from Virgil, tunes off Joel Hoekstra's The Moon is Falling, for those of you who are interested. The article starts on page 80. There's a lot of other cool info on this style of drumming and the drummers in the magazine. Check it out!

Brad

[PocketPlayer]

The data is out there...IMO, all you need is one recording, SYI from OTV (Serious Young Insects). This is what got me into OTV, not Virgil...he was part of OTV...the MUSIC is great!

As for non-progressive, in your face drumming, check out Freakhouse. I saw him play with Bunny Brunell at the Potato and three days later with Freakhouse...totally different styles of playing. He reminded me of Dave Grohl with only about a 30 second flash of "Virg" at the end of one tune.

As far as swing...jazz, there's plenty of times where Virg gets into it with Bunny. Maybe I've seen more than most because live they get into this on jams, especially when Weingart is on keys (Patrice Russin is excellent as well).

To say Virgil can't cop playing w/brushes or swing is just stupid (not that this was stated directly). He can't play brushes like Ed Thigpen or swing like Papa Jo, but he can play it good enough for about 97% of the listening audience. The ?purists? will always criticize, ragging on Smith or whomever, and I like that btw, keeps the genre pure. If he did a gig and a song called for this type of playing, he'd nail it. The man's a professional!

I do find it interesting that doubt still lurks regarding his abilities. Two types of doubt come to mind;

* The first is comparing Virg (or another drummer) to a particular drumming style piloted by one's favorite drummer?if I judged the way Virg played a shuffle like Porcaro every time he started to play one. The reverse of this is to be so obsessed with Virg (like a friend of mine) that whenever someone else plays, it?s always compared to Virg. It?s very hard to let go of that which we hold close.

** The second is thinking because someone plays so convincingly in one style (progressive) that they can?t crossover to another in convincing manner. It?s almost like many don?t want to accept certain players are that dedicated & skilled. Weckl took some flack when he started getting into Latin stuff?it all sounded good to me. Again, purists criticized. I recently found out the drummers on the movie, ?Drumline? where Keltner & Mason. If I was hiring for that movie, my first thought would not be Keltner or Mason?I would go for the best DCI players out there. I just found that interesting?I?m sure a lot of it was getting seasoned pros in the studio, etc.

Virg grooves, but it's true, he seems to be taking a more Weckl like career path, doing his own thing over Vinnie's choices.

I tell ya what I'd like to see, Dennis Chambers or Weckl play an OZZIE gig...all out rock n' roll like Tommy Aldrich--like Bill would say, "Just because I could." That's just me!

[mja61]

I have "Undefined" and it has become one of my favorite albums. It showcases some of Virgil's abilities, but he also plays for the music more so than in a Planet X context. Hoekstra's music has a very contemporary sound to it, but IMO appeals to those who still dig the "Joe Satriani" style from 10 or 15 years ago (like me!)

I have tremendous respect for Virgil's technique and abilities, but his groove always felt a little cold to me. He seems to throw in a lot of polyrhythmic stuff just for the sake of doing so. When he plays a simpler groove, I think he literally beats the life out of it. I can hear the powerful backbeat, but there's not much character to the sound.

I was listening to Narada Michael Walden on Jeff Beck's "Wired" yesterday, and there was definitely a display of power, chops, odd times, and technique, but there was much more emotion in the groove. The backbeats were powerful, but it sounded like a stick hitting a snare drum--not a sledge hammer hitting a sidewalk.

Virgil's work ethic and dedication are very inspiring, but I don't know that anyone can acquire Gadd's or Porcaro's pocket simply through practice and hard work.

[McKenzie]

Very cool Vdrummer I will for sure check out the new Drum issue. Let us also know how the Planet X gig goes when they come to town.

And Mja61, I dig Undefined too. But you have to check out The Moon Is Falling. I think you will find that his Groove is warmer than on Undefined.
It is almost like after the First project, he just became more accustomed to Joel's style of music and everything just gel's much better even though Undefined is Fantastic on it's own. If you can try and get ahold of Virgil's work with Southern Son's or some of Virgil's work with Aussie singer Jon Stevens(last singer for INXS.)
Very good stuff.


Dig

[Vdrummer]

I'd love to see Virgil in a context other than his drum videos or Planet X (though I dig them) but he never plays my area unless my drum shop brings him to town! So far we've had PX before once, and him alone a few times in clinics and masterclasses. I'd love to see Freakhouse or Virg with Bunny Brunel, both would be cool. But I'd especially like to see him with BB. I'm glad to hear Virgil plays simpler in other situations, and is taking steps not to typecast himself.

I don't see Weckl or Chambers accepting let alone doing an Ozzie type gig, though Vinnie has with the Billion Dollar Babies tribute to A.Cooper and the upcoming Megadeth release.

PocketPlayer: You've seen Virgil play brushes? That's cool. I'd love to see it. It would show a more sensitive side to his playing than many have seen from him. Thanks for recommending the SYI OTV disc, I'll get it.

mja61: Narada Michael Walden is one of my all time favorite drummers. Tons of fire, great ideas and chops. His playing on Led Boots off Wired was incredible. I've always believed that tune was where Vinnie got his approach to Sting's odd-time tunes. I transcribed some of him for the Drum! article I mentioned earlier.

Digital Man: I'm looking forward to the PX gig and the masterclass the day before even more. Virg is one of my favorite drummers. Plus, a bunch of good players will be in the masterclass.

Brad